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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptics out

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before the second of february2014 my

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friends i'll keep this introduction

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brief because i'm just getting over a

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chest infection as you can hear I'm not

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firing on all cylinders today

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nevertheless I'm excited to bring you

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this episode of the show I'm going to be

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interviewing a dear old friend of mine

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the jelly bean lady Loretta Marin she's

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known as the jelly bean lady because

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well you'll hear why coming up in the

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interview but wow what wonderful news

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for science and reason in Australia

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Loretta Marin who's been a long time

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campaigner against health fraud and

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quackery was on Australia Day the 26th

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of January awarded one of our nation's

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highest honors the order of australia

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for her work in uncovering quackery

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busting the quacks and so on wonderful

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news interview with lyrata marin oam as

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she's now known coming up at the top of

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the show following that as ever it's a

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week in science from the Royal

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Institution of Australia w WR I a u.s.

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org a you one day one day I'll get down

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there Paul Willis one day i'll come down

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to visit you guys at the Royal

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Institution I Australia looking forward

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to that and to round off the show lots

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more interviews from Maynard Maynard

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spooky action at the National Convention

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held last year in Canberra in fact this

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is the rapper the last series of

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interviews from Maynard from the

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convention main are jets to a PhD in

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earth sciences some more agent Smith's

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mysterious Mike McCrae talking about

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science and alternative medicine and

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then the sort of a grab bag of people as

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they leave the convention and their

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thoughts on the whole weekend and it's I

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guess it's my last opportunity to really

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thank may nod for the wonderful work

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tireless work he did for all of us at

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the National Convention with his reports

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going on now for my

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fantastic work Maynard and thank you to

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all those people who helped may not make

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the convention well while I go

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downstairs and look for some soothing

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ginger tea for my poor old vocal cords

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you

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well folks I'm a little bit under the

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weather as you can hear just getting

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over some sort of little bug or virus or

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I don't know what I've got I could try

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and many things i could try lots of bed

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rest and water and just taking it easy

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or i could try oh well I don't know say

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maybe some magnetic therapy to help me

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beat my ills but you know what I know a

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certain lady who would probably advised

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me not to do it and I'm very pleased and

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excited to have on the line all the way

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from sunny Queensland Loretta Marin

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hello hello how are you oh yeah good

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idea not too good but you know what I'm

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so pleased to talk with you because I as

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the world knows now as of a Australia

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date you've been awarded one of our

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country's highest awards which is the

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order of australia congratulations thank

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you I guess you're just one of the

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people congratulating me I'm just so

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proud to have received this award but

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what I'm getting is congratulations from

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like Nobel laureate in a professor barry

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marshall you know the man who worked out

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what cause ulcers but the CEO of the

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cancer council that's the 50 and over

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I've got the doctors who treated my

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cancer and got family friends academic

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scientists all over the world and

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Australia as well lots of them

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congratulating me I'm getting a lot of

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emails it's just um it's wonderful yes

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well I hope it was a wonderful surprise

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when you found out well when I first got

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the letter I read the first two lines

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and I swear the rest got jumbled I just

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couldn't read on and I had to hand it

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over to my husband say what does it say

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said you've got an order of australia

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medals and I said he you sure cuz I

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can't read it the next dance at their

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one word at a time and I thought where

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there's a good chance I've got that and

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and then you have to keep quiet no sep

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tember so I've had to keep my lips

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buttoned Simpsons a lot more to the

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process in that but in effect that I

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knew then so I thought well I can't

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celebrate

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anyone until Australia Day but i can

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guarantee there's been a few cooks

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champagne corks flying and the party

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isn't over yet you you are absolutely

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right in fact the skeptics here in

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Sydney will certainly be having a glass

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of champagne in your honor because we

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really think of you as one of our own

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you've been skeptic of the year on your

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own merits twice and as part of the

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Friends of science and medicine yet

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again which is a feat nobody else has

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even come close to matching but it all

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really started with you in your

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association with the skeptics over ten

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years ago when you are looking into

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magnetic therapy well that's right i had

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seen it advertised on the television so

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many times and a good friend of mine had

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bought one and he was an electrician and

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i had a bit of a go at him and I thought

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I'm no better than the alternative

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therapists unless I proved to him that

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they don't work so that was a challenge

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I thought how can I do that so you

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looked around Australian who could I

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talk to you and the thought will contact

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the skeptics whoever they are and I got

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hold of President the past president

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barry williams and he couldn't have been

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more helpful now what that did for me is

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make me realize that if i needed any

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help and advice the phone was there i

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could just pick it up and ring and and

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to be honest and you guys haven't got

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rid of message no no no we're very

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pleased that you're still there well yes

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and you've spoken at many Australian

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skeptics convention and you're a great

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speaker and you've even spoken in New

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Zealand I see oh yeah they're a

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wonderful group over there and they have

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really made me feel welcome as well it's

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the second time I've spoken there and

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they're really not that far away when

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you think about it and so that it's a

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good opportunity to get the message

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across and show them what we're doing in

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there in our country because they've got

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serious problems there as well and I we

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do need the skeptics around the world do

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need to you know look after each other

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and share what we know what we can do

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now you're famous of course maybe not so

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much now but in the past you you had the

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moniker of the jellybean lady and I

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there's a wonderful picture of you lying

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down on a bed of jelly beans with a

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jelly bean wrapped around your head what

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was

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because of the magnetic therapy right

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that had been my my my one thing that

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was really annoying me and that was

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pre-cancer say i put things down when i

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got the cancer because you know that

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takes over your life and but then i came

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back and i realized after I've been

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diagnosed that cancer patients were

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being targeted and I thought somebody

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should do something about this and I

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thought well it may as well be me and so

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I went to write a little brochure on

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complementary and alternative medicine

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and I thought and other things on how to

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get good advice on everything and the

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complementary alternative medicine

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section I thought I know nothing about

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this well I did two things one is i

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bought the skeptics DVD of all your

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articles for the last 20 years i printed

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out everything on complementary

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alternative medicine most of it was

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written by dr. richard gordon right yes

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yes and a couple of days later I pretty

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well had a good handle on it because one

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thing about alternative method it

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doesn't change they have new therapies

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created every couple of weeks but the

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basics are the same so first of all I

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got my education there and then I went

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to the adverse medicines events hotline

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and I rang them up and I said I need

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help with understanding the risks and

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benefits of complementing all medicines

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in particular because people are eating

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them and a woman by the name of

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Geraldine Moses out to the phone and she

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said well what do you know about

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complementary medicines and I said

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nothing I go over everybody to the

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skeptics dictionary and she couldn't

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have been more helpful she's just one

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but she still is helping and I think

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she's spoken at a few conferences so

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that's that's where it started with with

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that and the skeptics and the people

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that have helped me yes our Geraldine

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merces a i had the pleasure of meeting

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her once or twice I think in Brisbane

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around about the year 2001 when or is it

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2002 when the great skeptic CD was

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launched the CD you're referring to

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interesting it's things have progressed

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so so much now in computer terms that

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that's sort of a little bit

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leeton all the back issues of the

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skeptic magazine are now at the website

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which is nice and handy for everybody

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but personally I'm so pleased that

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you've got good use out of that CD

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because many years ago I was the one who

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sat down and put that all together so I

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get a little a warm glow Loretta knowing

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that I've helped you well the one thing

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is you actually about the magnetic

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business alright with Geraldine asked me

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well what was my you know area of

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interest to know said magnetic therapy

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so she then Dodd me into channel mind

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she said would you like to go on

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television channel nine to talk about

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magnetic therapy and I of course I said

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yes and then of course I hung up and I

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thought I don't look like a scientist ok

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oh and in line with the skeptics which

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is what the skeptics love if they love

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to have a good life right yeah what the

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mickey out of people so i decided i

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copied her notes from the local natural

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path which fed you know that the nature

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pathogen blah blah no Foreman is it but

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I made it the jellybeans lady is in I

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did a whole brochure abajo stand on that

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put it out front of the house I then put

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myself on i bought a jellybean apron

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from you know from a child store put the

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jelly beans on my head earrings jewelry

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set up a whole display of jelly bean

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therapy you know acupressure bracelets

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which was jelly beans back in a ribbon

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and actually printed up actually detox

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patches which is goes with the jelly

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bean in and then the pain relief jewelry

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and then i had even verbal remedy herbal

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tea which was jelly bean stuck on a

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kebab stick and channel 9 turned up and

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they took one look at me and they said

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watch his story and i could see they

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were looked a bit pale and I had my i

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bought a meter that measures magnetism

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oh yeah and I had a little magnetic

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underlay and a little jelly bean

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underlay all covered up in sheepskin my

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00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:23,110
said is the meter this out works which

271
00:11:26,130 --> 00:11:24,790
one's got the magnets and which ones got

272
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:26,140
the dilly beans and they said it reads

273
00:11:31,650 --> 00:11:28,720
zero and I said yes I said you just get

274
00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:31,660
a tiny distance you know if listen a

275
00:11:36,990 --> 00:11:33,760
centimeter above a magnet there's no

276
00:11:39,660 --> 00:11:37,000
field so what I say that people is grab

277
00:11:41,189 --> 00:11:39,670
a fridge magnet and try it and of course

278
00:11:43,889 --> 00:11:41,199
you're nothing can see if it works for

279
00:11:46,350 --> 00:11:43,899
you and and they just loved it you know

280
00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:46,360
and that was the start of me

281
00:11:52,110 --> 00:11:49,570
being the jellybean lady and that was

282
00:11:55,380 --> 00:11:52,120
also got me into new idea magazine as

283
00:11:57,780 --> 00:11:55,390
the candy Crusader not me on 24 bc radio

284
00:12:00,600 --> 00:11:57,790
for over a year just people love it when

285
00:12:03,180 --> 00:12:00,610
you prepared to put your head out there

286
00:12:05,699 --> 00:12:03,190
sis might get whacked a few times but

287
00:12:09,180 --> 00:12:05,709
then they remembered yours even on

288
00:12:11,790 --> 00:12:09,190
Ingrid tool show and your health show in

289
00:12:13,949 --> 00:12:11,800
Brisbane and I turned up and I had all

290
00:12:16,319 --> 00:12:13,959
this pom-pom stuck on my shirt I mean my

291
00:12:18,269 --> 00:12:16,329
idea of sewing is with glue so I had

292
00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:18,279
these little brightly things and I and I

293
00:12:22,019 --> 00:12:20,260
had the outfit on and she said you're

294
00:12:23,970 --> 00:12:22,029
great for television and I got a gig on

295
00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:23,980
there as well I thought if I'd look like

296
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:25,510
a scientist you know would have been

297
00:12:31,139 --> 00:12:29,410
unemployed very quickly it's been a lot

298
00:12:32,910 --> 00:12:31,149
of fun and that's better with the magnet

299
00:12:35,610 --> 00:12:32,920
well it's interesting because you know

300
00:12:38,370 --> 00:12:35,620
when I think back to roughly ten years

301
00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:38,380
ago or around that era I remember seeing

302
00:12:43,530 --> 00:12:41,100
on advertorial televisions and magazines

303
00:12:45,780 --> 00:12:43,540
magnetic underlays and magnetic therapy

304
00:12:47,550 --> 00:12:45,790
and magnetic this and that it was it was

305
00:12:49,650 --> 00:12:47,560
a fan of the time it was very popular

306
00:12:52,860 --> 00:12:49,660
but you don't see it anymore well

307
00:12:54,420 --> 00:12:52,870
scarcely ever so I think that's you

308
00:12:56,610 --> 00:12:54,430
don't see it at all that shouldn't be

309
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:56,620
there mmm but you will see them you know

310
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:58,240
spec floor-to-ceiling at your local

311
00:13:01,680 --> 00:12:59,920
pharmacy particularly if they're

312
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:01,690
anywhere near a retirement village so

313
00:13:05,939 --> 00:13:04,240
the school issue there and because their

314
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:05,949
labeling is atrocious on and it still

315
00:13:10,889 --> 00:13:07,839
makes the claims on the labeling but

316
00:13:12,540 --> 00:13:10,899
what you and I can do as consumers is

317
00:13:14,670 --> 00:13:12,550
try to get rid of the advertising this

318
00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:14,680
and pretty strong advertising lower

319
00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:16,690
their best well it's not to fit yeah I

320
00:13:20,370 --> 00:13:18,790
hope it will encourage my clio am

321
00:13:21,780 --> 00:13:20,380
there's a lot of people have turned

322
00:13:24,569 --> 00:13:21,790
their backs on evidence-based medicine

323
00:13:25,769 --> 00:13:24,579
but I mean we owe so much to researchers

324
00:13:28,829 --> 00:13:25,779
and doctors I mean there's a dramatic

325
00:13:31,259 --> 00:13:28,839
improvement in survival rates for cancer

326
00:13:34,350 --> 00:13:31,269
I think this month be declared India

327
00:13:35,730 --> 00:13:34,360
polio-free yes new the natural science

328
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:35,740
and evidence based medicine it's

329
00:13:41,250 --> 00:13:38,290
terrific yeah absolutely no magnetic

330
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:41,260
therapy or homeopathy or or witchcraft

331
00:13:46,740 --> 00:13:43,839
involved that's all good old good old

332
00:13:49,530 --> 00:13:46,750
science-based medicine at work doing

333
00:13:50,579 --> 00:13:49,540
what it what it does best and it's

334
00:13:52,170 --> 00:13:50,589
interesting you should mention the

335
00:13:53,730 --> 00:13:52,180
pharmacies because Australian skeptics

336
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:53,740
for a long time they've had a big issue

337
00:13:59,360 --> 00:13:57,250
with pharmacies selling no end of

338
00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:59,370
nonsense and

339
00:14:04,490 --> 00:14:01,680
too fat you can go to my local pharmacy

340
00:14:07,550 --> 00:14:04,500
and you get 15 minutes free iridology oh

341
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:07,560
lucky you yes that's right you know in

342
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:09,450
order to diagnose me with health

343
00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:11,490
conditions and miss the obvious ones and

344
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:13,620
as it just isn't right and that's their

345
00:14:17,180 --> 00:14:14,880
way of getting rounder and they're being

346
00:14:18,860 --> 00:14:17,190
told to clear their shelves the money's

347
00:14:21,079 --> 00:14:18,870
in all the complementary medicines I

348
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:21,089
mean we care or complementary

349
00:14:25,310 --> 00:14:23,370
alternative medicine if a 4 billion

350
00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:25,320
dollar industry and most of it realizing

351
00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:27,510
the placebo effect and some of its quite

352
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:30,120
dangerous and it often targets you know

353
00:14:35,390 --> 00:14:32,130
the most vulnerable people that cancer

354
00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:35,400
patients seniors and increasingly babies

355
00:14:40,370 --> 00:14:37,980
and children you know and I hope that my

356
00:14:43,010 --> 00:14:40,380
award will open more doors for me to

357
00:14:44,540 --> 00:14:43,020
challenge the poor regulation and make

358
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:44,550
you know make me more difficult to

359
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:47,010
ignore oh I'm sure it absolutely will

360
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:50,970
now you are in very fine company indeed

361
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:53,010
with the Friends of science and medicine

362
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:54,930
can you tell our listeners a little bit

363
00:14:58,640 --> 00:14:56,370
about that and how that's going oh

364
00:15:01,280 --> 00:14:58,650
that's going really well and I do have a

365
00:15:04,820 --> 00:15:01,290
lot to thank the skeptics for as well we

366
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:04,830
launched in december 2011 so we're just

367
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:06,810
over two years old we have over a

368
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:09,360
thousand supporters now including Nobel

369
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:11,370
Prize winners a couple of Australian of

370
00:15:17,810 --> 00:15:14,250
these I think about three and over 60

371
00:15:21,650 --> 00:15:17,820
recipients of medals like myself all

372
00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:21,660
over 61 now and when we started of

373
00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:23,430
course for it was self funded so it

374
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:26,310
meant that we all put 125 dollars in to

375
00:15:31,790 --> 00:15:29,130
pay for the postage and post office box

376
00:15:34,850 --> 00:15:31,800
and the skeptics willingly gave us a

377
00:15:36,530 --> 00:15:34,860
grant to get us off the ground we're

378
00:15:38,990 --> 00:15:36,540
trying to promote a message of good

379
00:15:40,490 --> 00:15:39,000
science medicine and that's a very

380
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:40,500
important message because of the

381
00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:42,810
industry was fighting so the support

382
00:15:47,540 --> 00:15:44,640
would continue to have from the skeptics

383
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,550
is regularly appreciated yes and we

384
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:49,440
think it's a wonderful thing that you're

385
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:51,510
doing and indeed one of our own Joe

386
00:15:54,590 --> 00:15:53,370
Benna mu is is certainly involved with

387
00:15:56,630 --> 00:15:54,600
the Friends of science and medicine and

388
00:15:58,850 --> 00:15:56,640
people you miss Johanna we happy family

389
00:16:01,790 --> 00:15:58,860
just a little treasure to use your

390
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:01,800
treasure a wonderful woman end but

391
00:16:05,769 --> 00:16:03,839
listeners can find out more about the

392
00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:05,779
Friends of science and medicine at

393
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:09,510
science in medicine or gay you and

394
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:11,490
Loretta that's certainly becoming under

395
00:16:15,260 --> 00:16:12,510
a lot of tax

396
00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:15,270
attack from certain quarters well it

397
00:16:18,890 --> 00:16:16,680
certainly is and that actually shows

398
00:16:20,420 --> 00:16:18,900
that we're being you know making the

399
00:16:24,340 --> 00:16:20,430
difference and that's what we're trying

400
00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:24,350
to do is challenge this industry and

401
00:16:29,090 --> 00:16:27,150
will they perhaps they're being feeling

402
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:29,100
a bit threatened but they have made very

403
00:16:34,190 --> 00:16:32,130
well-funded I mean some of them set up

404
00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:34,200
offices in Canberra so they can lobby

405
00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:36,660
the government and that's very difficult

406
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:38,070
for us to say to the government there's

407
00:16:42,110 --> 00:16:39,570
a whole industry there's a lot of people

408
00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:42,120
employed it's project projected to be

409
00:16:46,820 --> 00:16:43,860
one of the biggest growth employment

410
00:16:49,490 --> 00:16:46,830
industries for this year yeah and say

411
00:16:52,070 --> 00:16:49,500
most of it is just for SIBO all of it

412
00:16:54,380 --> 00:16:52,080
yeah yeah and that's very sad i will

413
00:16:57,770 --> 00:16:54,390
mention that this week is quite special

414
00:17:01,520 --> 00:16:57,780
for me not just for my reward but i

415
00:17:04,430 --> 00:17:01,530
celebrate 10 years exactly to my last

416
00:17:06,290 --> 00:17:04,440
week of treatment for radiotherapy so

417
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:06,300
it's been quite a roller coaster ride

418
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:08,610
since then it's been quite a 10 years

419
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:11,490
yes yeah so just you know second

420
00:17:15,740 --> 00:17:13,650
effective of februari was my last

421
00:17:18,110 --> 00:17:15,750
treatment and that's just in a few days

422
00:17:21,410 --> 00:17:18,120
from there so I've had a most amazing

423
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:21,420
decade that's the short and the skeptics

424
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:23,730
have been right in there because I hope

425
00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:25,410
people listen to this we'll have a look

426
00:17:29,030 --> 00:17:26,910
at the Friends of science and medicine

427
00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:29,040
website have a look at our aims and

428
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:31,320
commitments and we'd love you to join us

429
00:17:36,770 --> 00:17:33,210
all you have to do is say that you agree

430
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:36,780
with them and welcome on board isn't it

431
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:39,510
interesting that there you are one day

432
00:17:42,890 --> 00:17:41,610
getting this diagnosis of cancer and

433
00:17:45,410 --> 00:17:42,900
everybody knows it's a life-changing

434
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:45,420
thing for for anybody who gets this

435
00:17:49,460 --> 00:17:47,490
diagnosis but how could you possibly

436
00:17:52,970 --> 00:17:49,470
imagine it would change your life in

437
00:17:54,380 --> 00:17:52,980
such a an unexpected way and the top it

438
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:54,390
all off you receive an order of

439
00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:56,160
australia that's quite a story attract

440
00:18:00,110 --> 00:17:58,170
if someone said to me already you're the

441
00:18:03,050 --> 00:18:00,120
only one that can make lemonade out of a

442
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:03,060
lemon that's a good way of putting it

443
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:05,010
but it has been good looking back at the

444
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:07,320
last decade of all the people that have

445
00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:08,910
helped me along the way just little

446
00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:11,070
things that they've done on big things

447
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:12,390
that they've done as well I mean my

448
00:18:16,670 --> 00:18:14,730
neighbor that silkscreen my t-shirts

449
00:18:18,170 --> 00:18:16,680
with the jellybean lady on for the

450
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:18,180
conference the first conference I went

451
00:18:22,190 --> 00:18:20,370
to with the skeptics you know and and

452
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:22,200
the advice I've been given the support

453
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:23,910
I've been given it's just been

454
00:18:28,670 --> 00:18:26,400
tremendous and the opportunity to skip

455
00:18:31,550 --> 00:18:28,680
given me to go and talk about my work

456
00:18:34,060 --> 00:18:31,560
and even more recently about the Friends

457
00:18:36,380 --> 00:18:34,070
of science and medicine it all matters

458
00:18:38,330 --> 00:18:36,390
absolutely absolutely I couldn't agree

459
00:18:42,410 --> 00:18:38,340
with you more Loretta it matters it's

460
00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:42,420
it's it's a never-ending battle as we

461
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:44,280
know it's a never-ending battle but I

462
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:46,080
think you should rightly now consider

463
00:18:52,670 --> 00:18:50,090
yourself one of the generals Thank You

464
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:52,680
Loretta melon always we'd love to know

465
00:19:21,050 --> 00:18:56,490
you as the jelly bean lady Oh am a

466
00:19:22,790 --> 00:19:21,060
delight to talk with you okay take need

467
00:19:24,170 --> 00:19:22,800
some skeptic II goodness that you can

468
00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:24,180
handle to someone who doesn't listen to

469
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:26,310
podcasts or maybe you just need a good

470
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:29,010
book of short skeptical snippets to put

471
00:19:34,220 --> 00:19:31,050
in your guest bathroom at home or on the

472
00:19:36,050 --> 00:19:34,230
lobby table at work it's true we live in

473
00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:36,060
a modern Dark Age faith and

474
00:19:40,700 --> 00:19:38,460
pseudoscience is rampant and belief in

475
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:40,710
the supernatural permeates society at

476
00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:43,290
every level critical thinking is key to

477
00:19:48,290 --> 00:19:45,870
understanding what is truly useful and

478
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:48,300
what nearly distracts from progress and

479
00:19:52,850 --> 00:19:50,970
development this book gives you the

480
00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:52,860
tools to sort the solid from the silly

481
00:19:57,890 --> 00:19:56,130
and answer such questions as do military

482
00:20:02,420 --> 00:19:57,900
dolphins actually attack

483
00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:02,430
kill divers who was Jack the Ripper can

484
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:04,500
zombie powder actually turn you into a

485
00:20:11,660 --> 00:20:07,770
mindless slave was an amputee

486
00:20:14,650 --> 00:20:11,670
miraculously healed in the 1600s what is

487
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,660
truly known about Amelia Earhart's fate

488
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:17,760
does scientific evidence prove the

489
00:20:24,350 --> 00:20:21,050
existence of the Yeti skepp tied five

490
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:24,360
massacres monsters and miracles by Brian

491
00:20:32,570 --> 00:20:27,330
Dunning get yours today from amazon or

492
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:32,580
sceptile calm / books Sceptile massacres

493
00:20:45,779 --> 00:20:43,470
welcome to Weekend science from RI oz

494
00:20:48,029 --> 00:20:45,789
bringing you the science you need to

495
00:20:49,950 --> 00:20:48,039
know you may have heard about 3d

496
00:20:52,019 --> 00:20:49,960
printing the technology that allows you

497
00:20:54,450 --> 00:20:52,029
to make almost anything so long as you

498
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:54,460
can designer on a computer but get ready

499
00:21:02,310 --> 00:20:56,320
today we are talking about the next big

500
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:02,320
advance 4d printing 3d printing is

501
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:05,049
pretty amazing as we said you can print

502
00:21:09,710 --> 00:21:07,210
out almost any shape you can think of as

503
00:21:12,629 --> 00:21:09,720
long as you can designer on a computer a

504
00:21:14,879 --> 00:21:12,639
printer prints our other metal plastic

505
00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:14,889
or many other substances into

506
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:17,320
three-dimensional shapes by laying layer

507
00:21:22,649 --> 00:21:20,559
upon layer however one limitation is

508
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:22,659
that you still need to assemble 3d

509
00:21:27,269 --> 00:21:24,850
printed parts into a more complex

510
00:21:29,789 --> 00:21:27,279
structure what if we said the next big

511
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:29,799
development called 4d printing was to

512
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:32,080
create shapes that can actually assemble

513
00:21:35,820 --> 00:21:33,850
themselves into their final three

514
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:35,830
dimensional structure that's what

515
00:21:40,139 --> 00:21:37,840
researchers are working on now to create

516
00:21:42,659 --> 00:21:40,149
principle materials and structures which

517
00:21:44,879 --> 00:21:42,669
when activated fold themselves into a

518
00:21:48,419 --> 00:21:44,889
predetermined shape this activation

519
00:21:52,529 --> 00:21:48,429
could be water electricity heat really

520
00:21:54,990 --> 00:21:52,539
anything these structures are made by

521
00:21:56,639 --> 00:21:55,000
combining plastic and smart memory

522
00:21:58,669 --> 00:21:56,649
material which can morph into different

523
00:22:00,720 --> 00:21:58,679
shapes one of the most obvious

524
00:22:03,090 --> 00:22:00,730
applications of this is to create

525
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:03,100
structures which are flat or small so

526
00:22:06,990 --> 00:22:05,049
they can be shipped easily and then be

527
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:07,000
activated into their functional shape

528
00:22:12,090 --> 00:22:09,850
once on location could this be the end

529
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:12,100
of trying to assemble fiddly flat-pack

530
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:15,250
furniture man I hope so objects could

531
00:22:18,330 --> 00:22:17,049
also be made which have a different

532
00:22:20,639 --> 00:22:18,340
structure in different conditions

533
00:22:23,129 --> 00:22:20,649
meaning one object could have several

534
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:23,139
different uses structures could also

535
00:22:27,419 --> 00:22:25,360
react to their surroundings to change

536
00:22:30,779 --> 00:22:27,429
shape and optimize their effectiveness

537
00:22:34,590 --> 00:22:30,789
how cool is that and now here's four

538
00:22:37,330 --> 00:22:34,600
fast facts about 40 printing

539
00:22:40,270 --> 00:22:37,340
4d printing was revealed to the world in

540
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:40,280
a TED talk by MIT researchers Skylar

541
00:22:44,890 --> 00:22:43,010
Tibbits we recommend checking it out the

542
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:44,900
shapes that the structures convert into

543
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:46,850
are determined during the design stage

544
00:22:52,150 --> 00:22:49,760
so every step of the conversion from one

545
00:22:53,890 --> 00:22:52,160
shape to the other is controllable one

546
00:22:56,050 --> 00:22:53,900
of the other interesting applications

547
00:22:58,420 --> 00:22:56,060
for this technology is medicine where

548
00:23:00,430 --> 00:22:58,430
molecules can react and transform into

549
00:23:02,860 --> 00:23:00,440
functional types when they reach a

550
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:02,870
particular part of the body and one of

551
00:23:06,910 --> 00:23:04,610
the largest self-folding structures

552
00:23:09,010 --> 00:23:06,920
we've seen is this 50-foot long strand

553
00:23:11,620 --> 00:23:09,020
but this technology will be scaled up

554
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:11,630
even further in the future one to find

555
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:14,000
out more about 4d printing check out our

556
00:23:22,750 --> 00:23:20,690
website w WR i ASO GA you where we have

557
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:22,760
some links you can also follow us on

558
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:25,370
twitter at our oz and like us on

559
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:27,530
facebook we'll see you right here next

560
00:23:40,590 --> 00:23:38,430
hi I'm Finn and I'm Rebecca and where

561
00:23:42,330 --> 00:23:40,600
the skipper cons skipper Collins is an

562
00:23:44,010 --> 00:23:42,340
Irish podcast by the Dublin skeptics

563
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:44,020
society it takes a conversational

564
00:23:46,860 --> 00:23:45,610
reverent look at science news and

565
00:23:50,340 --> 00:23:46,870
skeptical topics for an Irish

566
00:24:02,909 --> 00:23:50,350
perspective you can find us at WWDC

567
00:24:07,789 --> 00:24:02,919
arrogance calm years may not spooky

568
00:24:12,660 --> 00:24:11,220
hey no no no I want to talk to an actual

569
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:12,670
scientists here we've got someone who

570
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:14,710
spent a lot more time at University than

571
00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:16,240
I did in fact I was only there for the

572
00:24:22,380 --> 00:24:18,100
day and what have you got your degree in

573
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:22,390
I have a PhD in geography and you said

574
00:24:24,990 --> 00:24:23,770
you're working in the earth sciences we

575
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:25,000
just moved over this way little bit

576
00:24:27,390 --> 00:24:26,290
because there's screaming children

577
00:24:30,690 --> 00:24:27,400
coming from the discovery center

578
00:24:32,580 --> 00:24:30,700
downstairs there and you with what do

579
00:24:34,530 --> 00:24:32,590
you think a lot of people are drawn to

580
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:34,540
Earth Sciences or it's just something

581
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:38,410
you fall into I think it's a naturally

582
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:41,290
compelling field because being able to

583
00:24:45,770 --> 00:24:43,210
have the tools to describe our

584
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:45,780
environment and our world around us is

585
00:24:49,770 --> 00:24:47,770
intrinsically important to all of us

586
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:49,780
it's very exciting and what is the

587
00:24:54,419 --> 00:24:52,090
actual topic you're dealing with

588
00:24:56,460 --> 00:24:54,429
day-to-day at the moment so I use

589
00:24:58,620 --> 00:24:56,470
satellites that are orbiting around the

590
00:25:01,140 --> 00:24:58,630
earth to measure processes on the

591
00:25:03,570 --> 00:25:01,150
Earth's surface such as the quality of

592
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:03,580
water and the quality of freshwater

593
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:07,330
habitats and how many it in any given

594
00:25:10,350 --> 00:25:09,010
time would you work within a day how

595
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:10,360
many satellites are you keeping an eye

596
00:25:15,690 --> 00:25:13,600
on that do this there are a couple of

597
00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:15,700
key satellites that mentioned that

598
00:25:22,049 --> 00:25:19,750
measure the range of the electromagnetic

599
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:22,059
spectrum that we can use to measure

600
00:25:27,930 --> 00:25:25,330
water quality the Landsat 8 sensor was

601
00:25:30,150 --> 00:25:27,940
recently launched by NASA last year and

602
00:25:31,799 --> 00:25:30,160
that's been successfully orbiting and is

603
00:25:33,419 --> 00:25:31,809
bringing in a whole host of new

604
00:25:36,299 --> 00:25:33,429
information and everyone's very excited

605
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:36,309
about analyzing that data understand

606
00:25:38,970 --> 00:25:37,600
that would be every once in a while

607
00:25:41,070 --> 00:25:38,980
something goes wrong in a satellite gets

608
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:41,080
lost or it goes off on launch have you

609
00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:42,370
ever been involved in any one of those

610
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:43,900
ones you're going on there goes all that

611
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:46,809
work I was going to do unfortunately

612
00:25:52,890 --> 00:25:50,370
satellites have a life expectancy and

613
00:25:55,049 --> 00:25:52,900
usually they exceed them which is very

614
00:25:56,940 --> 00:25:55,059
good for the scientific community but

615
00:25:58,950 --> 00:25:56,950
when a satellite does go down and you

616
00:26:02,100 --> 00:25:58,960
lose that data stream it can be very

617
00:26:04,919 --> 00:26:02,110
impactful the Landsat sensor that I was

618
00:26:07,049 --> 00:26:04,929
telling you about earlier the series of

619
00:26:09,299 --> 00:26:07,059
those sensors have been in orbit longer

620
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:09,309
than any other remote sensing sensor up

621
00:26:15,690 --> 00:26:12,970
there since the late 1970s so it

622
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:15,700
provides the the longest long-term

623
00:26:19,290 --> 00:26:17,650
record of satellite observations that we

624
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:19,300
have which is very important for

625
00:26:23,090 --> 00:26:20,610
quantifying

626
00:26:24,919 --> 00:26:23,100
global environmental change and tracking

627
00:26:27,860 --> 00:26:24,929
the environments response to climate

628
00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:27,870
change hello much longer they expected

629
00:26:30,980 --> 00:26:29,790
to be active for can you guarantee much

630
00:26:33,049 --> 00:26:30,990
in the future with it continuing its

631
00:26:35,030 --> 00:26:33,059
been there so long well there have

632
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:35,040
actually been a number of Landsat

633
00:26:40,940 --> 00:26:37,650
sensors so the recent one is Landsat 8

634
00:26:44,299 --> 00:26:40,950
so Landsat 7 and landsat 5 were orbiting

635
00:26:47,150 --> 00:26:44,309
for about a decade before that and the

636
00:26:50,090 --> 00:26:47,160
Landsat 5 sensor was a real trooper and

637
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:50,100
it finally failed last year and the

638
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:52,559
Landsat 7 Center has a flaw that

639
00:26:57,500 --> 00:26:54,960
retrieves incomplete data so the

640
00:26:59,870 --> 00:26:57,510
community was very upset at having a

641
00:27:01,850 --> 00:26:59,880
disruption in one of the longest term

642
00:27:04,490 --> 00:27:01,860
environmental records that we have in

643
00:27:06,260 --> 00:27:04,500
the current era so when Landsat 8

644
00:27:09,230 --> 00:27:06,270
successfully made it into launch

645
00:27:11,539 --> 00:27:09,240
everybody was very happy so you click

646
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,549
ting this huge big data set what is the

647
00:27:15,049 --> 00:27:13,440
big challenge for having like a huge

648
00:27:16,340 --> 00:27:15,059
amount of raw data like that with

649
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:16,350
processing it and getting it together

650
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:17,760
what was the big challenge on a day to

651
00:27:24,169 --> 00:27:21,600
day basis well Geoscience Australia here

652
00:27:26,750 --> 00:27:24,179
has just reprocessed all of the historic

653
00:27:29,330 --> 00:27:26,760
data from the Landsat sensor and it

654
00:27:31,460 --> 00:27:29,340
represents over a petabyte of data so as

655
00:27:34,850 --> 00:27:31,470
you can imagine the data volumes

656
00:27:36,380 --> 00:27:34,860
enormous USB stick it is an enormous USB

657
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:36,390
stick that's called the National

658
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:39,840
computing infrastructure that is just

659
00:27:43,610 --> 00:27:41,520
incredible and how much gets added to it

660
00:27:47,060 --> 00:27:43,620
each time you get a download dumb from

661
00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:47,070
the satellite well they Australia has a

662
00:27:50,860 --> 00:27:49,320
downlink for the Landsat sensor here in

663
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:50,870
the continent so they're constantly

664
00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:52,730
communicating and

665
00:27:59,080 --> 00:27:57,049
that data so it's delivered to us pretty

666
00:28:01,299 --> 00:27:59,090
close to near real time which allows us

667
00:28:03,820 --> 00:28:01,309
to do quite a lot of interesting

668
00:28:06,460 --> 00:28:03,830
environmental science especially because

669
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:06,470
we can exploit that that historic record

670
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:08,809
which makes our understanding of process

671
00:28:13,570 --> 00:28:10,910
much more valuable than just an

672
00:28:15,159 --> 00:28:13,580
instantaneous measurements so as an

673
00:28:17,260 --> 00:28:15,169
actual science who has an actual

674
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:17,270
scientists with an actual degree what

675
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:19,610
they want to shoot a science get your

676
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:20,960
goat the most what's the one that makes

677
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,650
you most I ever I think the one that

678
00:28:28,990 --> 00:28:26,480
maybe hits closest to home for me as

679
00:28:31,090 --> 00:28:29,000
climate denial as someone who's actively

680
00:28:32,919 --> 00:28:31,100
researching the effects and the impacts

681
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:32,929
of climate change and we have observed

682
00:28:37,570 --> 00:28:35,600
them it's very hard to have someone tell

683
00:28:41,260 --> 00:28:37,580
you that climate change isn't happening

684
00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:41,270
or it doesn't exist or it's not going to

685
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:42,799
result in many changes to our

686
00:28:48,130 --> 00:28:44,450
environment have you been directly

687
00:28:52,090 --> 00:28:48,140
accused of fiddling the books yourself I

688
00:28:55,060 --> 00:28:52,100
have and my response to that is if I

689
00:28:58,150 --> 00:28:55,070
wanted to be rich and famous I went in

690
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:58,160
to become a scientist yes yeah yeah look

691
00:29:02,289 --> 00:28:59,840
if there's some kind of payoff going on

692
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:02,299
it wouldn't be from doing this no it

693
00:29:06,340 --> 00:29:04,910
certainly isn't I can tell you that and

694
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:06,350
nobody looking forward to hear on the

695
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:07,850
last afternoon in the conference on

696
00:29:11,919 --> 00:29:09,440
sunday afternoon any special talk you're

697
00:29:14,650 --> 00:29:11,929
looking forward to I'm very interested

698
00:29:17,230 --> 00:29:14,660
in the kind of wrap up discussions about

699
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:17,240
where the skeptical community is going

700
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:21,290
and I hope to see it maybe some greater

701
00:29:26,909 --> 00:29:23,120
outreach from The Skeptical community

702
00:29:29,860 --> 00:29:26,919
it's very easy to sit in a group and

703
00:29:32,530 --> 00:29:29,870
criticize conspiracy theorist but I

704
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:32,540
think that we need to try and reach

705
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:35,360
across that and bring in at least those

706
00:29:38,749 --> 00:29:37,490
people who are open to compelling

707
00:29:40,369 --> 00:29:38,759
argument

708
00:29:44,899 --> 00:29:40,379
I'll enjoy the rest of your conference

709
00:29:46,729 --> 00:29:44,909
thank you and I have yet to more agent

710
00:29:48,439 --> 00:29:46,739
Smith's here what is the other what's

711
00:29:51,199 --> 00:29:48,449
your middle name Agent Smith middle name

712
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:51,209
is Corrin and you are great now you're

713
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:53,039
both very snappily dressed here is you

714
00:29:56,689 --> 00:29:54,570
have been all weekend normally there's

715
00:29:58,459 --> 00:29:56,699
some sort of incident but since P semis

716
00:30:00,259 --> 00:29:58,469
isn't attending today we haven't

717
00:30:01,639 --> 00:30:00,269
actually got an incident yet are you

718
00:30:03,619 --> 00:30:01,649
planning on having one before we finish

719
00:30:05,779 --> 00:30:03,629
by Sanderson art we could probably

720
00:30:07,459 --> 00:30:05,789
manufacture something but we're hoping

721
00:30:08,989 --> 00:30:07,469
that nothing happens that sounds like

722
00:30:10,189 --> 00:30:08,999
you got a conspiracy in mind there now

723
00:30:12,769 --> 00:30:10,199
what about you is anything happened on

724
00:30:15,169 --> 00:30:12,779
your watch oh we can't really talk about

725
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:15,179
what's happened no okay I guess you

726
00:30:18,349 --> 00:30:17,039
can't really well let's get straight

727
00:30:20,209 --> 00:30:18,359
into the controversy the fact that you

728
00:30:22,189 --> 00:30:20,219
can't see anything that's happened is

729
00:30:23,899 --> 00:30:22,199
indication of how well we've been good

730
00:30:26,509 --> 00:30:23,909
at making sure nothing's happened now I

731
00:30:28,129 --> 00:30:26,519
have been asking people about the trying

732
00:30:30,229 --> 00:30:28,139
to get a controversy going try to get an

733
00:30:32,449 --> 00:30:30,239
incident going by mentioning and asking

734
00:30:34,129 --> 00:30:32,459
people who is the unpopular doctor

735
00:30:35,329 --> 00:30:34,139
because everyone has their favorite

736
00:30:37,309 --> 00:30:35,339
doctor but who's the one you think is

737
00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:37,319
least popular now I must point out we

738
00:30:40,729 --> 00:30:38,940
aren't bagging the person or the actor

739
00:30:42,169 --> 00:30:40,739
it's just their work in doctor who we

740
00:30:43,819 --> 00:30:42,179
think isn't as good as some of the other

741
00:30:46,129 --> 00:30:43,829
ones have you got a particular feeling

742
00:30:49,189 --> 00:30:46,139
about this I'm completely Doctor Who

743
00:30:51,469 --> 00:30:49,199
agnostic well okay so does that mean you

744
00:30:52,879 --> 00:30:51,479
so when people say Star Trek or doctor

745
00:30:55,939 --> 00:30:52,889
who you just you just don't get involved

746
00:30:58,579 --> 00:30:55,949
at all pretty much pretty much I might

747
00:31:01,579 --> 00:30:58,589
as well say Christianity or Islam dilute

748
00:31:03,049 --> 00:31:01,589
it so so you'd be a buck rogers in the

749
00:31:04,939 --> 00:31:03,059
25th century kind of guy then is that

750
00:31:07,459 --> 00:31:04,949
what you are Oh buck rogers near you

751
00:31:09,019 --> 00:31:07,469
takin me back yeah and battlestar

752
00:31:11,209 --> 00:31:09,029
galactica at the first series the

753
00:31:13,309 --> 00:31:11,219
original look I have a bit of a thing

754
00:31:14,659 --> 00:31:13,319
for battlestar galactica 1980 that there

755
00:31:16,069 --> 00:31:14,669
was a third series that is not actually

756
00:31:18,139 --> 00:31:16,079
part of the can and I loved that that's

757
00:31:20,029 --> 00:31:18,149
when the Cylons fight bushfires and

758
00:31:21,529 --> 00:31:20,039
stuff and check that one out yeah all

759
00:31:23,419 --> 00:31:21,539
that they became socially conscious what

760
00:31:25,369 --> 00:31:23,429
about you and the doctor who issue I'm a

761
00:31:28,190 --> 00:31:25,379
recent convert to the Doctor Who so I'm

762
00:31:30,289 --> 00:31:28,200
2005 series only okay

763
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:30,299
and so that only gives me a small number

764
00:31:34,730 --> 00:31:33,690
of doctors to to not like and they're

765
00:31:36,649 --> 00:31:34,740
all pretty good but Christopher

766
00:31:39,710 --> 00:31:36,659
Eccleston's was met perhaps just a

767
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:39,720
little wooden in his delivery sorry I a

768
00:31:43,250 --> 00:31:41,250
lot of people think of him because he

769
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:43,260
was only in there for one year and a lot

770
00:31:46,580 --> 00:31:45,330
of people so I kind of liked him because

771
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:46,590
he was a bit rough around the edges and

772
00:31:50,210 --> 00:31:48,419
seemed to like a bit of beef he had that

773
00:31:52,460 --> 00:31:50,220
sort of EastEnders touch to him mm-hmm

774
00:31:54,649 --> 00:31:52,470
and maybe that's part of it he doesn't

775
00:31:57,860 --> 00:31:54,659
seem like the doctors that sort of

776
00:32:00,019 --> 00:31:57,870
followed him the ones that were more

777
00:32:02,180 --> 00:32:00,029
intellectual or philosophical and he

778
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:02,190
perhaps was a bit rough and tumble and

779
00:32:05,570 --> 00:32:03,330
yet he was the one that kicked it off

780
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:05,580
again wasn't it he was yep so all credit

781
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:09,510
to him and the writers for that it's

782
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:10,850
been a great series since then

783
00:32:14,899 --> 00:32:12,809
congratulation to you guys for putting

784
00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:14,909
such a great work into this way realize

785
00:32:18,019 --> 00:32:16,289
it's a team effort for all the Canberra

786
00:32:19,549 --> 00:32:18,029
skeptics and you did a great dinner last

787
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:19,559
night and it has been pointed out you

788
00:32:23,299 --> 00:32:21,360
have the great trick of selling off all

789
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:23,309
your props so you set up the dinner you

790
00:32:26,750 --> 00:32:25,049
had to log in but you never had to

791
00:32:28,879 --> 00:32:26,760
logout you just had to wander off into

792
00:32:30,590 --> 00:32:28,889
the night and Sam's on clean up to

793
00:32:33,230 --> 00:32:30,600
that's right how many Daleks did you

794
00:32:35,539 --> 00:32:33,240
eventually auction off last night the

795
00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:35,549
total was eight yeah wow yeah well you

796
00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:37,710
raised some good money and what are you

797
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:38,760
guys going to go to next year's

798
00:32:41,330 --> 00:32:39,929
convention or you're just not even

799
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:41,340
thinking about that since this one's not

800
00:32:44,899 --> 00:32:43,679
even over yet we've got a long time

801
00:32:49,820 --> 00:32:44,909
before we have to think about that I

802
00:32:52,580 --> 00:32:49,830
think I am I seeing how this is gone and

803
00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:52,590
not having to actually see too many of

804
00:32:56,930 --> 00:32:54,840
the lectures I think I sort of missed

805
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:56,940
out a little bit on that so going to the

806
00:33:01,340 --> 00:32:59,519
Brisbane one was a Brisbane at will be

807
00:33:03,620 --> 00:33:01,350
good look we appreciate your courage

808
00:33:05,149 --> 00:33:03,630
yeah thank you right now it's trying to

809
00:33:07,789 --> 00:33:05,159
make a charge for that lunch table see

810
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:07,799
well they don't fit into the secret

811
00:33:11,330 --> 00:33:09,360
corner which is the secret corner

812
00:33:12,889 --> 00:33:11,340
because on one side they have done some

813
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:12,899
drawings of cats cat and on that side

814
00:33:15,379 --> 00:33:14,159
they haven't quite finished the

815
00:33:18,889 --> 00:33:15,389
paintings they're doing yet he'll be

816
00:33:20,779 --> 00:33:18,899
safe oh and who we got here Mike McRae

817
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:20,789
now you just gave a great chat about

818
00:33:24,769 --> 00:33:22,289
alternative medicine what were you angry

819
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:24,779
at in it um I guess primarily actually

820
00:33:31,070 --> 00:33:27,529
looking at alternate medicine as being a

821
00:33:32,740 --> 00:33:31,080
response I guess rather than just a pure

822
00:33:34,909 --> 00:33:32,750
belief system that comes out of nothing

823
00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:34,919
looking at medicine is actually being

824
00:33:38,210 --> 00:33:36,809
scientifically informed but science

825
00:33:40,369 --> 00:33:38,220
being something that too many people

826
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:40,379
represents a state authority so we've

827
00:33:43,950 --> 00:33:40,960
been looking at

828
00:33:46,500 --> 00:33:43,960
theories clear throughout the skeptic

829
00:33:49,019 --> 00:33:46,510
convention and conspiracy there is also

830
00:33:50,490 --> 00:33:49,029
being a response to a dominant system to

831
00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:50,500
say I don't trust you here's my

832
00:33:53,639 --> 00:33:52,510
alternative belief look I'm certainly on

833
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:53,649
board with this in fact I've often said

834
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:55,360
that a lot of skeptics go after the

835
00:33:59,130 --> 00:33:57,370
science for people with the anti-vaxxers

836
00:34:00,899 --> 00:33:59,140
and that sort of thing but in some ways

837
00:34:02,430 --> 00:34:00,909
they're more like anti-capitalist it's

838
00:34:03,899 --> 00:34:02,440
actually not so much the science they're

839
00:34:06,149 --> 00:34:03,909
suspicious of their suspicious of the

840
00:34:07,889 --> 00:34:06,159
capitalism and the industry behind it

841
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:07,899
absolutely is a correlation there where

842
00:34:11,220 --> 00:34:09,490
there's different value systems at place

843
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:11,230
so people have their values that inform

844
00:34:14,609 --> 00:34:13,330
various beliefs and those values come

845
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:14,619
into it regardless of whether it's

846
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:16,450
believing some alternative medicine or

847
00:34:19,230 --> 00:34:17,770
maybe to do with the environment to do

848
00:34:21,899 --> 00:34:19,240
with their own position in the community

849
00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:21,909
and often if your your cultural group so

850
00:34:27,169 --> 00:34:24,310
the group that you identify most with if

851
00:34:30,570 --> 00:34:27,179
it feels as if by some ways it's not

852
00:34:33,149 --> 00:34:30,580
it's being as we're disempowered or it's

853
00:34:34,889 --> 00:34:33,159
being somehow suppressed and in some way

854
00:34:36,180 --> 00:34:34,899
so if there's oppression going on then

855
00:34:37,409 --> 00:34:36,190
there's going to be a response to that

856
00:34:39,089 --> 00:34:37,419
so where there's power there's going to

857
00:34:40,349 --> 00:34:39,099
be that push back and often up when it

858
00:34:42,149 --> 00:34:40,359
comes to alternative medicine here is

859
00:34:44,010 --> 00:34:42,159
that push back that says I've had an

860
00:34:45,930 --> 00:34:44,020
experience with medicine that informs

861
00:34:47,849 --> 00:34:45,940
those values to say I don't trust you I

862
00:34:49,649 --> 00:34:47,859
don't believe in you in some way here is

863
00:34:51,599 --> 00:34:49,659
my subculture over here which empowers

864
00:34:52,589 --> 00:34:51,609
me and so you'll actually identify with

865
00:34:54,149 --> 00:34:52,599
that but there's something that's

866
00:34:56,150 --> 00:34:54,159
curious it goes on and that is with the

867
00:34:58,260 --> 00:34:56,160
community science is clearly

868
00:35:00,210 --> 00:34:58,270
legitimization it is a power and so

869
00:35:01,530 --> 00:35:00,220
while you're stepping back from it at

870
00:35:03,359 --> 00:35:01,540
the same time you can't divorce yourself

871
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:03,369
from it entirely which is where we get

872
00:35:07,650 --> 00:35:05,770
pseudoscience and hybridization language

873
00:35:09,390 --> 00:35:07,660
they actually sound scientific because

874
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:09,400
you kind of want to be identified you

875
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:10,930
know as if you've got some legitimacy

876
00:35:14,910 --> 00:35:13,330
but you can't actually be part of that

877
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:14,920
scientific culture as well and so you'll

878
00:35:18,359 --> 00:35:16,330
retain those values on the other side

879
00:35:20,579 --> 00:35:18,369
you obviously studied many of the

880
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:20,589
different alternative practices what's

881
00:35:24,089 --> 00:35:22,210
your favorite us for I was going where

882
00:35:26,730 --> 00:35:24,099
that's out there I in terms of weird

883
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,740
stuff um I'm a bit of fan of Reiki as

884
00:35:30,060 --> 00:35:28,480
Reiki has so many different variations

885
00:35:32,070 --> 00:35:30,070
you can even do it remotely over the

886
00:35:34,170 --> 00:35:32,080
phone sometimes I've got a really just

887
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:34,180
anything to do with vitalism pretty much

888
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:35,890
because you know violence and being that

889
00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:37,330
there is some sort of essence in things

890
00:35:41,579 --> 00:35:39,550
that is non-materialistic but where does

891
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:41,589
that go back to the Victorian or before

892
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:43,330
before that so it was actually quite a

893
00:35:47,130 --> 00:35:45,520
legitimate science to begin with in that

894
00:35:48,930 --> 00:35:47,140
initially when they looking at the

895
00:35:50,670 --> 00:35:48,940
material universe so being defined by

896
00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:50,680
laws and rules there was a response to

897
00:35:53,740 --> 00:35:52,390
that which said you can't reduce things

898
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:53,750
down to

899
00:35:58,090 --> 00:35:56,480
he rules that define the universe things

900
00:36:00,610 --> 00:35:58,100
have much more of a nebulous concept

901
00:36:02,740 --> 00:36:00,620
more meaning so there was a response to

902
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:02,750
said the more that you actually quantify

903
00:36:07,270 --> 00:36:05,450
things the more that you actually count

904
00:36:08,590 --> 00:36:07,280
things in such a way make up laws the

905
00:36:09,820 --> 00:36:08,600
more you take away from it you don't

906
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:09,830
meaning and which is true i mean if you

907
00:36:13,570 --> 00:36:12,170
look at science you do quantify stuff

908
00:36:14,590 --> 00:36:13,580
but you always have to come back in a

909
00:36:16,450 --> 00:36:14,600
way and kind of give it some sort of

910
00:36:18,490 --> 00:36:16,460
meaning as well and people like Rupert

911
00:36:19,660 --> 00:36:18,500
Sheldrake hopped onto this and gone you

912
00:36:20,890 --> 00:36:19,670
know that that was where science should

913
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:20,900
have gone and it never did because

914
00:36:23,260 --> 00:36:22,010
that's the kind of thing he says we

915
00:36:25,060 --> 00:36:23,270
that's where he reckons science goes

916
00:36:26,380 --> 00:36:25,070
wrong that's right and you do get I mean

917
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:26,390
that's there's nothing new and the

918
00:36:28,270 --> 00:36:27,440
Sheldrake's of the world there's me

919
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:28,280
something that's been around for

920
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:29,510
centuries and that the more that you

921
00:36:32,740 --> 00:36:31,010
reduce things down the more you take

922
00:36:36,010 --> 00:36:32,750
away something from it there was a

923
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:36,020
naturalist in the 1700s bono do before

924
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:37,910
now do be fun was the first guy can't

925
00:36:41,110 --> 00:36:39,680
encyclopedia so you just want to write

926
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:41,120
everything that was known at the time he

927
00:36:45,010 --> 00:36:43,370
went all these books but he thought

928
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:45,020
matts was a useful thing that's not the

929
00:36:47,980 --> 00:36:46,490
be-all and end-all and he opposed that

930
00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:47,990
he said look maths actually takes away

931
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:49,760
from stuff and that was during the time

932
00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:51,680
when vitalism was becoming a big idea

933
00:36:56,260 --> 00:36:53,510
because they wanted to find some force

934
00:36:58,210 --> 00:36:56,270
or some sort of rule that that governed

935
00:36:59,770 --> 00:36:58,220
biology so while you had Newton who said

936
00:37:01,480 --> 00:36:59,780
well look at gravity gravity is in

937
00:37:02,980 --> 00:37:01,490
everything has mass and everything else

938
00:37:05,050 --> 00:37:02,990
mass comes together thanks to this rule

939
00:37:07,150 --> 00:37:05,060
you know I found a hypothesis don't know

940
00:37:08,650 --> 00:37:07,160
what it is but it's a rule biologist

941
00:37:10,210 --> 00:37:08,660
wanted the same thing so well maybe this

942
00:37:12,070 --> 00:37:10,220
vitalism thing but every time they

943
00:37:13,330 --> 00:37:12,080
looked at it it robbed it of its meaning

944
00:37:14,650 --> 00:37:13,340
because you'd find all these little

945
00:37:16,690 --> 00:37:14,660
rules that made biology quite

946
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:16,700
complicated so the vitalist sexually

947
00:37:20,110 --> 00:37:18,290
became more of people who said well

948
00:37:21,790 --> 00:37:20,120
don't look at the rules it's just a

949
00:37:23,410 --> 00:37:21,800
thing and that's where you get things

950
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:23,420
like homeopathy coming out in the end in

951
00:37:28,060 --> 00:37:26,690
that homeopathy is all matter has some

952
00:37:29,830 --> 00:37:28,070
sort of vital essence to it this

953
00:37:32,140 --> 00:37:29,840
vitalism and if you can put it into

954
00:37:33,820 --> 00:37:32,150
water or sampson diliman and dilute it

955
00:37:35,350 --> 00:37:33,830
right down smack it a few times to get

956
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:35,360
that vital essence out what you're doing

957
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:36,560
is you're pulling out making it stronger

958
00:37:41,170 --> 00:37:38,720
hence where homeopathy came from in

959
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:41,180
concept now a little bit after that we

960
00:37:44,470 --> 00:37:42,800
came up with things like avocados number

961
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:44,480
we start understand more about how you

962
00:37:49,570 --> 00:37:46,880
can break matter down into atoms and

963
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:49,580
smaller components but yeah in ish alee

964
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:50,960
with all out the whole vitalism thing

965
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:52,640
was actually quite scientific it's just

966
00:37:56,770 --> 00:37:54,560
we've discarded it belong since then so

967
00:37:58,570 --> 00:37:56,780
how do you argue it's ahead how do you

968
00:38:01,690 --> 00:37:58,580
argue on the same level with homeopathy

969
00:38:03,070 --> 00:38:01,700
because you're invoking some

970
00:38:05,290 --> 00:38:03,080
the spirit of science that they don't

971
00:38:07,810 --> 00:38:05,300
really follow you don't and that's real

972
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:07,820
it comes down to um yeah it's probably

973
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:09,170
the biggest question of ghost often is

974
00:38:14,140 --> 00:38:10,730
is how do you win over people how do you

975
00:38:16,090 --> 00:38:14,150
actually convince you don't you come dr.

976
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:16,100
Craig climate car mentioned in his talk

977
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:17,330
something quite interesting and that is

978
00:38:20,890 --> 00:38:18,650
when it comes to people you have to find

979
00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:20,900
shared values you know we are social

980
00:38:25,060 --> 00:38:22,910
animals we we always listen to people

981
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:25,070
who seem to identify with with our

982
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:26,810
identity in some way so you have to

983
00:38:29,620 --> 00:38:28,370
identify in someone what what things

984
00:38:31,330 --> 00:38:29,630
that we already share if you don't share

985
00:38:33,610 --> 00:38:31,340
science find something else to discuss

986
00:38:35,650 --> 00:38:33,620
and then as they slowly identify you as

987
00:38:37,090 --> 00:38:35,660
being a friend or someone who is in part

988
00:38:38,530 --> 00:38:37,100
of their social group more of those

989
00:38:40,300 --> 00:38:38,540
values will come across and they may

990
00:38:41,860 --> 00:38:40,310
actually evolve our time but there is no

991
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:41,870
conversation you can have to sit down

992
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:43,010
with a stranger to say I'm going to

993
00:38:46,330 --> 00:38:44,720
convince you so if you if that's your

994
00:38:47,710 --> 00:38:46,340
goal you're better off just having a

995
00:38:50,290 --> 00:38:47,720
chat about something that you do

996
00:38:52,210 --> 00:38:50,300
actually share sports politics art

997
00:38:53,890 --> 00:38:52,220
whatever it is and ignore the rest

998
00:38:55,630 --> 00:38:53,900
because now you've actually set up in

999
00:38:56,620 --> 00:38:55,640
someone the idea goes to know that guy

1000
00:38:58,510 --> 00:38:56,630
who was talking about aren't we both

1001
00:39:00,640 --> 00:38:58,520
like that yeah there are into science

1002
00:39:02,230 --> 00:39:00,650
uceda just that little bit to say maybe

1003
00:39:04,270 --> 00:39:02,240
we share a little bit more than just a

1004
00:39:06,730 --> 00:39:04,280
love of something like art is it worth

1005
00:39:07,990 --> 00:39:06,740
trying me well it worked for me it it

1006
00:39:09,580 --> 00:39:08,000
worked for me argument which you often

1007
00:39:11,830 --> 00:39:09,590
hear from people that take alternative

1008
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:11,840
cures only if you actually share the

1009
00:39:14,980 --> 00:39:13,760
same social group only if I already like

1010
00:39:16,270 --> 00:39:14,990
you if there's somebody there that you

1011
00:39:17,890 --> 00:39:16,280
have an influence where you say well

1012
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:17,900
this work for me if you're a powerful

1013
00:39:21,190 --> 00:39:19,280
person in their social group they'll be

1014
00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:21,200
influenced if you're not forget about it

1015
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:22,910
it's not going to work on that level we

1016
00:39:26,110 --> 00:39:24,410
have to approach this culturally you

1017
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:26,120
know we can't be individuals going up

1018
00:39:29,410 --> 00:39:27,650
there changing minds we have to operate

1019
00:39:30,940 --> 00:39:29,420
on a level that says first of all you

1020
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:30,950
have to like me first of all you have to

1021
00:39:34,930 --> 00:39:32,510
be part of my social group and share my

1022
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:34,940
identity and then maybe we can discuss

1023
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:36,410
things in overtime your beliefs will

1024
00:39:39,970 --> 00:39:38,000
evolve and I think the more that we do

1025
00:39:41,830 --> 00:39:39,980
that more we build the the cultural

1026
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:41,840
identity rather than isolate and

1027
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:43,730
ostracize and say you belong to that

1028
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:45,290
other group you're an idiot who believes

1029
00:39:47,950 --> 00:39:46,880
in different things then all you're

1030
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:47,960
doing is just pushing them into another

1031
00:39:51,130 --> 00:39:49,760
you know subculture that means you can't

1032
00:39:52,540 --> 00:39:51,140
communicate it was it you that mentioned

1033
00:39:54,010 --> 00:39:52,550
that Al Gore was perhaps possibly the

1034
00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:54,020
worst spokesman for climate change you

1035
00:39:57,010 --> 00:39:55,730
can have for various reasons know that

1036
00:39:58,810 --> 00:39:57,020
that was that was Craig but I mean

1037
00:40:00,040 --> 00:39:58,820
that's a good good example of that in

1038
00:40:01,870 --> 00:40:00,050
that you've actually got someone who

1039
00:40:04,270 --> 00:40:01,880
already belongs to one subculture saying

1040
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:04,280
well here's this other system those

1041
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:05,930
people who identify them is not being

1042
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:07,520
part of them and not going to listen and

1043
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:08,570
we do that all the time will go to

1044
00:40:12,130 --> 00:40:10,310
someone who is not part of our group and

1045
00:40:13,420 --> 00:40:12,140
say you're wrong you don't believe in

1046
00:40:15,370 --> 00:40:13,430
the same things I do here's where you

1047
00:40:16,599 --> 00:40:15,380
should be right we haven't got to hope

1048
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:16,609
whereas you start with things where

1049
00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:17,930
people already agreeing with you they

1050
00:40:21,970 --> 00:40:20,089
already value the same things and forget

1051
00:40:23,650 --> 00:40:21,980
the part we have to convince them slowly

1052
00:40:25,059 --> 00:40:23,660
over time beliefs will actually change

1053
00:40:26,289 --> 00:40:25,069
we're never going to do it completely

1054
00:40:27,819 --> 00:40:26,299
we're not going to have a perfect

1055
00:40:29,349 --> 00:40:27,829
society where everybody is going to be

1056
00:40:31,359 --> 00:40:29,359
scientifically informed and sharing

1057
00:40:32,380 --> 00:40:31,369
those values and maybe we shouldn't I

1058
00:40:34,539 --> 00:40:32,390
mean maybe there is strength in that

1059
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:34,549
diversity but what we do need to do is

1060
00:40:38,319 --> 00:40:36,410
try to monitor that people's decisions

1061
00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:38,329
are being made with their own interests

1062
00:40:42,099 --> 00:40:40,400
are they want the best outcome and

1063
00:40:43,499 --> 00:40:42,109
that's always hard with medicine because

1064
00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:43,509
with medicine people actually make

1065
00:40:47,410 --> 00:40:45,920
choices that they don't want people want

1066
00:40:49,269 --> 00:40:47,420
to be healthy when they make a choice

1067
00:40:50,980 --> 00:40:49,279
that makes them unhealthy where do we

1068
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:50,990
stand ethically and I think that's where

1069
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:52,640
really we have to find a way of doing it

1070
00:40:55,450 --> 00:40:53,839
that sort of brings people together

1071
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:55,460
rather than just divert you know

1072
00:40:59,740 --> 00:40:57,410
dividing people into different cultures

1073
00:41:01,990 --> 00:40:59,750
here in Canberra the topics being sort

1074
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:02,000
of conspiracies all weekend now is there

1075
00:41:05,470 --> 00:41:03,650
one conspiracy that despite the lack of

1076
00:41:06,940 --> 00:41:05,480
evidence you would find a rather good if

1077
00:41:08,529 --> 00:41:06,950
it was true or you like would you be

1078
00:41:09,970 --> 00:41:08,539
tickled pink if it was actually real a

1079
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:09,980
conspiracy look to be honest I know

1080
00:41:13,690 --> 00:41:11,599
absolutely nothing about the whole JFK

1081
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:13,700
conspiracy my partner's American and

1082
00:41:17,410 --> 00:41:15,650
they had recently that Australian guy

1083
00:41:19,150 --> 00:41:17,420
who's come out with the ballistics

1084
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:19,160
reports and the Secret Service goal I've

1085
00:41:22,059 --> 00:41:20,930
done it yeah that's right um to be

1086
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:22,069
honest that kind of tweak no way I've

1087
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:23,690
got no idea and this is a difference I

1088
00:41:26,799 --> 00:41:25,490
way that sounds plausible but I know my

1089
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:26,809
limitations here I know I know nothing

1090
00:41:29,999 --> 00:41:28,160
about it but I mentioned it to my

1091
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:30,009
partner she got a little bit offended

1092
00:41:34,599 --> 00:41:32,000
being American you know this is

1093
00:41:36,279 --> 00:41:34,609
something to hurt that has a very deep

1094
00:41:37,390 --> 00:41:36,289
cultural meaning so for me to say

1095
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:37,400
weren't there something is and she's

1096
00:41:40,509 --> 00:41:38,690
gone well this is Australian who's

1097
00:41:42,910 --> 00:41:40,519
coming out and rubbished our reports she

1098
00:41:44,410 --> 00:41:42,920
acted emotionally towards it I still

1099
00:41:46,359 --> 00:41:44,420
have no idea maybe something to read up

1100
00:41:48,279 --> 00:41:46,369
on one day i'm not sure but that was

1101
00:41:50,380 --> 00:41:48,289
something that tweaked me went based on

1102
00:41:51,789 --> 00:41:50,390
my ignorance that actually sounds a

1103
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:51,799
little bit plausible it sounds less like

1104
00:41:54,460 --> 00:41:53,359
these other conspiracies that require a

1105
00:41:55,870 --> 00:41:54,470
whole lot of people to keep a secret

1106
00:41:57,039 --> 00:41:55,880
this seemed like something that you

1107
00:41:59,289 --> 00:41:57,049
could actually sweep under the rug and

1108
00:42:00,999 --> 00:41:59,299
sound okay but to be honest as I said

1109
00:42:02,289 --> 00:42:01,009
I've got no idea and where can we find

1110
00:42:03,970 --> 00:42:02,299
you online of the find out more about

1111
00:42:05,499 --> 00:42:03,980
the talk you just gave you could

1112
00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:05,509
probably just stuff on me on Twitter so

1113
00:42:10,569 --> 00:42:08,240
it's tribal scientist cool okay it's not

1114
00:42:11,740 --> 00:42:10,579
a discussion not an argument absolutely

1115
00:42:14,140 --> 00:42:11,750
that's always there find the values you

1116
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:14,150
share first well all the clouds rushing

1117
00:42:18,220 --> 00:42:16,730
at it's a wrap for 2013 skeptics

1118
00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:18,230
convention and of course you made the

1119
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:19,910
big announcement there Richard at the

1120
00:42:23,319 --> 00:42:21,410
end which got a huge round of applause

1121
00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:23,329
almost a standing ovation what's the go

1122
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:24,510
for next year

1123
00:42:28,190 --> 00:42:25,770
announced that I was leaving everybody

1124
00:42:30,140 --> 00:42:28,200
aboard now then the announcement is the

1125
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:30,150
stone skeptics National Convention for

1126
00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:32,970
2014 will be in sydney australia on the

1127
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:35,760
weekend of the 29th and 30th of november

1128
00:42:40,730 --> 00:42:38,370
special guests the skeptics guide to the

1129
00:42:42,350 --> 00:42:40,740
universe in George hurry up wow so look

1130
00:42:43,730 --> 00:42:42,360
that's a third great convention in a row

1131
00:42:45,230 --> 00:42:43,740
and of course it had a wonderful feel of

1132
00:42:46,910 --> 00:42:45,240
Canberra here it's had a great venue

1133
00:42:48,770 --> 00:42:46,920
it's going to be hard to top the CSIRO

1134
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:48,780
it's a wonderful place look at all these

1135
00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:50,370
people streaming out there delighted

1136
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:52,740
they had a wonderful weekend thank you

1137
00:42:58,370 --> 00:42:56,160
so how was a few this weekend how was

1138
00:43:00,380 --> 00:42:58,380
this very Canberra skeptical event for

1139
00:43:01,730 --> 00:43:00,390
you it was wonderful it was incredibly

1140
00:43:04,190 --> 00:43:01,740
exhausting and I got three hours sleep

1141
00:43:07,490 --> 00:43:04,200
last night ah that means is you've been

1142
00:43:09,020 --> 00:43:07,500
doing some post activities um yes yes I

1143
00:43:10,340 --> 00:43:09,030
went to the pub last night actually yeah

1144
00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:10,350
no that's great now what do you think

1145
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:14,160
was the best talk today oh that's a very

1146
00:43:18,380 --> 00:43:17,130
tough call but I'm probably gonna go

1147
00:43:19,970 --> 00:43:18,390
with Patrick Stokes because I was

1148
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:19,980
looking forward to it so much and how do

1149
00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:21,450
you feel about the excitement of next

1150
00:43:25,940 --> 00:43:22,800
year when skeptics guide to the universe

1151
00:43:27,140 --> 00:43:25,950
and George harbor I barely have to

1152
00:43:29,570 --> 00:43:27,150
travel which means I don't really get

1153
00:43:32,270 --> 00:43:29,580
much of a holiday actually but no very

1154
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:32,280
cool very exciting what do you think was

1155
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:34,650
the big highlight of the weekend on well

1156
00:43:38,420 --> 00:43:36,330
I thought the whole thing was a

1157
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:38,430
highlight dad my highlight personally

1158
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:40,290
maenad was the fact that last year's you

1159
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:42,720
know I was in convenor so my highlight

1160
00:43:46,310 --> 00:43:44,250
was that I could sit there and watch it

1161
00:43:47,810 --> 00:43:46,320
all go by and relax totally right you

1162
00:43:49,940 --> 00:43:47,820
have to do nothing now I've got to say

1163
00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:49,950
last year's convention in Melbourne had

1164
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:52,710
a slightly more younger touch because of

1165
00:43:56,180 --> 00:43:54,240
the young Melbourne skeptics I thought

1166
00:43:58,220 --> 00:43:56,190
that they're slightly older crowd here

1167
00:43:59,930 --> 00:43:58,230
but a slightly more varied crowd than

1168
00:44:02,570 --> 00:43:59,940
last year am I getting that wrong or not

1169
00:44:04,490 --> 00:44:02,580
well as you can see may know there's a

1170
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:04,500
little bit of gray on the roof here but

1171
00:44:09,380 --> 00:44:06,810
I'm a young at heart sort of guys I know

1172
00:44:10,940 --> 00:44:09,390
what we really did aim very very hard to

1173
00:44:13,940 --> 00:44:10,950
get the young Australian skeptics there

1174
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:13,950
we had the special lunch with Rebecca

1175
00:44:18,230 --> 00:44:16,530
and DJ there to get the Mennonites to I

1176
00:44:20,660 --> 00:44:18,240
spoke with Jason ball and a number of

1177
00:44:22,070 --> 00:44:20,670
others and we work very hard to get the

1178
00:44:23,690 --> 00:44:22,080
young ones because they're the future of

1179
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:23,700
skepticism as to it because I love them

1180
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:25,440
are based in Melbourne to and maybe not

1181
00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:26,690
so many around the Canberra

1182
00:44:31,630 --> 00:44:29,599
well they all hang out to hang around

1183
00:44:33,069 --> 00:44:31,640
together on social media anyway so it

1184
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:33,079
doesn't really matter where they are but

1185
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:34,970
look getting back to this one credit

1186
00:44:39,550 --> 00:44:36,890
where credit's due this is a fabulous

1187
00:44:41,650 --> 00:44:39,560
location the csr oh yeah Discovery

1188
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:41,660
Center its rate internet great internet

1189
00:44:47,290 --> 00:44:43,970
connection here it is particularly when

1190
00:44:49,630 --> 00:44:47,300
it works made ad excellent look out now

1191
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:49,640
you off to the anomalous psychology in

1192
00:44:54,609 --> 00:44:51,440
the pub tonight yes purely for the

1193
00:44:56,410 --> 00:44:54,619
anomalous content nothing else dragging

1194
00:44:58,089 --> 00:44:56,420
me there at all manner okay and your

1195
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:58,099
very favorite talk about of the year

1196
00:45:01,630 --> 00:44:59,359
there must have been one talk this

1197
00:45:06,670 --> 00:45:01,640
afternoon that got you going well well I

1198
00:45:09,069 --> 00:45:06,680
thought that Craig was from the CSIRO as

1199
00:45:10,750 --> 00:45:09,079
an old science communicated myself and

1200
00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:10,760
it turns out we have worked in the same

1201
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:13,910
place at slightly different times and I

1202
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:17,450
thought his his talk about science

1203
00:45:22,210 --> 00:45:19,730
communication in the way that we need to

1204
00:45:24,250 --> 00:45:22,220
reach out to people were very very good

1205
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:24,260
but amanda de vows a number of other

1206
00:45:30,460 --> 00:45:28,130
people Paul Willis as well and really

1207
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:30,470
when it's all said and done skepticism

1208
00:45:34,690 --> 00:45:33,200
it's fine to sit around in halls and

1209
00:45:37,180 --> 00:45:34,700
convention theatres and talk about

1210
00:45:38,829 --> 00:45:37,190
skepticism but ultimately we've got to

1211
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:38,839
get it out there into the masses and

1212
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:41,510
that's a very difficult thing to do look

1213
00:45:45,790 --> 00:45:43,130
at the we here just making a quick

1214
00:45:47,140 --> 00:45:45,800
getaway from the anu car park we think

1215
00:45:48,250 --> 00:45:47,150
we've got the same car we came in but

1216
00:45:50,319 --> 00:45:48,260
frankly it doesn't matter this what

1217
00:45:52,150 --> 00:45:50,329
isn't too bad is it it's not too bad at

1218
00:45:53,890 --> 00:45:52,160
all I'm not too bad at all now of course

1219
00:45:55,660 --> 00:45:53,900
you know what do you think was a

1220
00:45:58,300 --> 00:45:55,670
highlight of weekend for you there well

1221
00:46:00,849 --> 00:45:58,310
firstly about the car okay in quantum

1222
00:46:02,770 --> 00:46:00,859
mechanics the wave function one electron

1223
00:46:05,140 --> 00:46:02,780
is the same as the wave function for

1224
00:46:06,609 --> 00:46:05,150
another and if two electrons happen to

1225
00:46:09,550 --> 00:46:06,619
collide you can no longer distinguish

1226
00:46:11,260 --> 00:46:09,560
which one was which so so if quantum

1227
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:11,270
mechanics applied on a larger scale it

1228
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,650
wouldn't really matter which car we were

1229
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:14,480
in it would but all cars would be

1230
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:17,690
equivalent you see a lot like that I'll

1231
00:46:22,150 --> 00:46:19,490
look with we're already playing already

1232
00:46:24,339 --> 00:46:22,160
playing a car tag with your other people

1233
00:46:25,809 --> 00:46:24,349
on that we've got the robotic Aaron the

1234
00:46:27,970 --> 00:46:25,819
butter cow in front of us a world

1235
00:46:29,770 --> 00:46:27,980
someone's got the corporate car haven't

1236
00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:29,780
they now Richard Saunders you'd be a

1237
00:46:33,309 --> 00:46:31,310
little bit tired after all that what's

1238
00:46:35,170 --> 00:46:33,319
been going on this weekend I am it was

1239
00:46:35,770 --> 00:46:35,180
exhausting but I mean it was a big day

1240
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:35,780
on Friday

1241
00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:37,040
getting down here then the Friday

1242
00:46:41,260 --> 00:46:39,440
evening events saturday was up full-on

1243
00:46:43,870 --> 00:46:41,270
than the dinner and then today's been

1244
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:43,880
really busy too so we're four very tired

1245
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:45,440
but happy skeptics driving back to

1246
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:46,880
Sydney and once again I want to thank

1247
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:49,040
these skeptic zone lessness for for

1248
00:46:52,210 --> 00:46:51,050
helping me that be able to come here

1249
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:52,220
this weekend and I hope that the

1250
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:53,510
interviews have lived up to what you

1251
00:46:58,330 --> 00:46:56,210
wanted probably not behaved to you I say

1252
00:47:00,460 --> 00:46:58,340
if they haven't and it's time to get off

1253
00:47:03,550 --> 00:47:00,470
to the Campbeltown row a car park now

1254
00:47:11,220 --> 00:47:03,560
we're of course tights our pants and

1255
00:47:11,230 --> 00:47:22,340
you

1256
00:47:26,660 --> 00:47:24,530
the internet maybe the information

1257
00:47:28,190 --> 00:47:26,670
superhighway but there is no promise

1258
00:47:30,380 --> 00:47:28,200
that the information is factually

1259
00:47:32,420 --> 00:47:30,390
correct so when people use the internet

1260
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:32,430
to educate themselves they are at risk

1261
00:47:36,830 --> 00:47:34,410
of being misinformed and reaching false

1262
00:47:39,350 --> 00:47:36,840
conclusions but don't worry there is a

1263
00:47:41,180 --> 00:47:39,360
solution Roboto is a browser plug-in

1264
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:41,190
which tells users when the webpage they

1265
00:47:45,530 --> 00:47:42,810
are currently viewing has been disputed

1266
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:45,540
elsewhere on the internet with rabbit

1267
00:47:49,580 --> 00:47:47,610
are installed any time you read a page

1268
00:47:51,380 --> 00:47:49,590
making a claim of truth you have

1269
00:47:54,020 --> 00:47:51,390
immediate access to another page which

1270
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:54,030
explains why that claim is incorrect so

1271
00:47:57,860 --> 00:47:55,680
you not only get an opposing perspective

1272
00:47:59,840 --> 00:47:57,870
and more information on the subject but

1273
00:48:02,270 --> 00:47:59,850
you get a direct demonstration of how to

1274
00:48:04,730 --> 00:48:02,280
critically analyze the page you just

1275
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,740
read imagine a world where every

1276
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:06,480
internet user was able to critically

1277
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:08,490
reflect on the information that the

1278
00:48:12,350 --> 00:48:10,800
internet presents to them because that

1279
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:12,360
is the internet that row butter and its

1280
00:48:19,610 --> 00:48:15,210
community of volunteers are building go

1281
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:19,620
to rebuttal com that's our b ut our com

1282
00:48:23,570 --> 00:48:22,290
install the plug-in and see what you can

1283
00:48:42,750 --> 00:48:23,580
do to help us bring about this

1284
00:48:47,710 --> 00:48:44,980
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1285
00:48:50,740 --> 00:48:47,720
zonen once again congratulations to

1286
00:48:53,740 --> 00:48:50,750
Loretta Marin for that wonderful award

1287
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:53,750
of the order of australia now before I

1288
00:48:59,740 --> 00:48:57,170
go my friends in Sydney don't forget to

1289
00:49:03,190 --> 00:48:59,750
come along to Sydney skeptics in the pub

1290
00:49:06,370 --> 00:49:03,200
on Thursday the sixth of februari at the

1291
00:49:10,599 --> 00:49:06,380
crown hotel our guest speaker is Rob

1292
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:10,609
burn from rotary about ending polio end

1293
00:49:17,380 --> 00:49:14,000
polio now campaign and rotary do a

1294
00:49:20,290 --> 00:49:17,390
wonderful job internationally in helping

1295
00:49:24,130 --> 00:49:20,300
to bring this disease to hopefully a

1296
00:49:29,620 --> 00:49:24,140
swift end for more information go to

1297
00:49:31,450 --> 00:49:29,630
meetup.com / aust skeptics so those

1298
00:49:34,300 --> 00:49:31,460
people in Sydney please come along and

1299
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:34,310
hear what rotary has to say about ending

1300
00:49:40,329 --> 00:49:37,760
polio well I better go and lie down for

1301
00:49:42,220 --> 00:49:40,339
a week make sure I'm well rested and

1302
00:49:45,579 --> 00:49:42,230
recovered for the next week's episode on

1303
00:49:47,950 --> 00:49:45,589
the skeptic zone until then this is

1304
00:49:54,099 --> 00:49:47,960
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1305
00:49:58,780 --> 00:49:54,109
Australia you've been listening to the

1306
00:50:02,620 --> 00:49:58,790
skeptic zone visit our website at www